21st Century Classical Greek -- Herodotus

All right. I have gone on with Herodotus. After I thought that he threw me under the bus over ergatives, I decided to see what he has done for me lately.

Well.

First, Book I, 4.2. He confirms that an pivots between concepts.

δῆλα γὰρ δὴ ὅτι, εἰ μὴ αὐταὶ ἐβούλοντο, οὐκ ἂν ἡρπάζοντο.

The subject is kidnapping women. The ei clause has the women for the subject of eboulonto, the “then” clause has the kidnappers for the subject of irpazonto.

The verbs are both indicative; in a conditional, this means a conditional contrary to fact. Herodotus has to negate the verb because the fact is that the women were kidnapped. The verbs are both in base voice, not passive. They are progressive eventive, and the progressive does not have passive voice.

Second, Herodotus proves that there is no “imperfect tense” that is interrupted by another action. He is speaking of thinking or wanting, and kidnapping, and neither action is interrupted by another action.

In I.5.2

…αἰδεομένη τοὺς τοκέας οὕτω δὴ ἐθελοντήν αὐτήν τοῖσι Φοίνιξι συνεκπλῶσαι, ὡς ἂν μὴ κατάδηλος γένηται

A woman sails away with the Phoinikians “so that something does not become obvious.” What? Her pregnancy. An pivots from the woman sailing away, to her pregnancy.

The genitai is an imperfective eventive oblique; she knew it was possible for her parents to detect her pregnancy but she sailed away to prevent it from shaming her before them.

In I.14.3 there IS an ergative structure and it uses a progressive conceptual:

ὁ δὲ χρυσός οὗτος καὶ ὁ ἄργυρος τὸν ὁ Γύγης ἀνέθηκε, ὑπὸ Δελφῶν καλέεται Γυγάδας ἐπὶ τοῦ ἀναθέντος ἐπωνυμίην.

Kaleo has an “aor.2” form the way aireo has. The old grammars did not understand ergative structures and so they would not have labeled kaleetai as “pres.2”. But here it is with krusos and arguros as -oi case and hupo Delfon as agents.

I.30.1. is an example of progressive eventive with an agent.

ἀπικόμενος δὲ ἐξεινίζετο ἐν τοῖσι βασιληίοισι ὑπὸ  τοῦ Κροίσου·…

Ksenizo does not have an “aor.2” It is in base voice, as we know because progressive does not have a passive voice. This is also another example of how “imperfect tense” is a false concept for this verb form.

Here is Herodotus (I.70.3) using an agent clause with an imperfective eventive passive voice:

ὡς ἀπαιρεθείησαν ὑπὸ  Σαμίων. κατὰ μέν νυν τὸν κρητῆρα οὕτω ἔσχε.

And finally, in I.141.1, I get an imperfective intransitive eventive:

Ἴωνες δὲ καὶ Αἰολέες, ὡς οἱ Λυδοὶ τάχιστα κατεστράφατο ὑπὸ  Περσέων…

The root strefo has an imperfective intransitive eventive which uses phi instead of the normal psi  of a transitive imperfective eventive.

So I spoke too fast. Herodotus uses progressives in ergative structures but he also has the normal imperfective ergative.